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Everything you ever wanted to know about fansubs, but were afraid to ask

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    #46
    Originally posted by Levon

    Which is why we can give out links like this: www.animesuki.com

    Ohhh you rebel, you and your exciting on-the-edge life-style makes me jealous.


    If the anime isn't licensed in America, there is nothing wrong with downloading it, but if you enjoy it be sure to buy the series if it comes out in America.

    I understand the creator doesn't get money if you download the anime(unlicensed), but they don't get money if you don't either.

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      #47
      Anime is copyrighted, which means that sharing or distributing any anime without written permission from the copyright owner is a violation of international copyright law. Yes. Pure and simple, no debate or discussion: fansubs are illegal. It doesn't matter if the anime is licensed or unlicensed in your area. It's illegal. Period.

      Fansubs are illegal, but no one has ever been sued or arrested for watching, downloading, creating or distributing fansubs. The fact that no one prosecutes doesn't mean that it's legal. It just means that copyright owners either ignore fansubs, or don't consider them worth the expense or effort of legally shutting down.

      Fansubs are illegal, but most fans continue to support them anyway because they believe that fansubs do more good than harm.

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        #48
        It's interesting how some moderators condone watching unlicensed anime and yet they delete a topic I posted about watching Naruto using winamp. I'm just encountering a lot of double-standards issues here. Look how low my post count is.

        If you ask me, and thank you for doing so, it would be rather ignorant for this website to allow posting of links to unlicensed animes even though the internet is international where anyone can access these links.
        Last edited by pinoy; February 10th, 2005, 04:31 PM.

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          #49
          Originally posted by pinoy
          If you ask me, and thank you for doing so, it would be rather ignorant for this website to allow posting of links to unlicensed animes even though the internet is international where anyone can access these links.
          I agree 110%. If I mention a competitor selling a licensed copy of a title that AnimeNation doesn't carry (legal and not even real competition), my post is deleted. But if I want to have a discussion about the ways to optimize downloads through a site which also carries fansubs of licensed/unlicensed products, (clearly illegal in both cases, unless the material was posted and approved by the copyright holder) THAT doesn't get deleted.

          My message to the AnimeNation mods/Admins would simply be: Either AnimeNation supports the industry or it does not. I perfectly understand the reason that competitors' links are not allowed. Now it's time for AN to stop giving an unofficial sanction to illegal activity. To do otherwise is to say, "We don't care about the industry, just our profits relative to our competitors."

          How does that further AN's reputation as a company? If it wasn't for the filter, I could list three other online companies who sell licensed anime that make a POINT of describing the problem with bootlegs and fansubs, how to identify them, and why these products hurt the industry. Why doesn't AN step up to the bar? Most people would rather buy products from reputable dealers, and quite honestly, these companies have done more to demonstrate their good reputations as dealers of licensed products.

          And I don't personally buy the whole "we delete threads with links and discussions of LICENSED fansubs, but not UNLICENSED fansubs" thing. What's the difference? Illegal is illegal. Unlike most things in life, this one's actually black and white, too.

          In short: with all due respect, quit being hypocrites. I know it's not easy, and I don't envy the tasks that the Admins/Mods have to do to regulate the boards. But I think AN needs to get off the fence on this one and set a good example.

          EITHER THAT, or AN should simply go back to allowing discussion of fansubs of licensed products, competitors, etc. I actually don't care which side AN chooses, I just don't think it should remain on the fence about the issue, as a seller of licensed legitimate products.

          That's my opinion. If other members disagree, fine, there are lots of threads in which to debate the issue. But I'd like to hear from a spokesman from AN on this one, quite honestly. I would like to hear the company's justification for permitting discussion threads and links to sites that permit the illegal downloading of copyrighted material. Am I alone on this, or would anyone else like to hear it as well?
          He was the sort of person who stood on mountaintops during thunderstorms in wet copper armour shouting "All the Gods are bastards."

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            #50
            Hmm...do I agree with you...I do completely Leader Desslock.

            In this day and age of the DVD, with a Japanese track on almost all anime available in the US, there is little or no excuse for downloading cheap entertainment off the internet. Even those anime that are supposedly not licensed yet in the US, I am more than willing to bet that, if they are worth watching, they will make their way here in due time. Animes like Maison Ikkoku and Flame of Recca were (according to somebody on the Hunter X Hunter forum) lost causes...but here they are in the US on DVD.

            But it usually doesn't stop with unlicensed anime. One of my brother's friends claims to have Gundam in gigs on his computer. There is really no excuse for that. He is only cheating other fans that buy their anime legally. Some fans complain about the skimpy extras on DVDs that companies here in America have. It isn't helping anybody if they don't buy the rights the supplements from Japan because not enough people are going to buy the legal copy to make it worth it. That's just one possible example.

            Besides...in the end, I think there is a very satisfying feeling when you own a copy of your favorite series and you didn't steal from anybody to get it.
            Last edited by Ketaru; February 10th, 2005, 07:50 PM.
            Signature Picture I Would Use if Signatures Could Show Pictures...

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              #51
              http://animenation.net/forums/showthread.php?t=161576
              6/18/05 - Moose's Animated Gifs

              Comment


                #52
                ^ While that's an excellent discussion, and a good place for us to debate the issue of the illegality of downloading fansubs, I would still like to hear from an AnimeNation spokesperson on the issue I raised earlier:

                As a legitimate vendor of licensed merchandise, why does AnimeNation condone the discussion of illegal download activity on their boards?

                EDIT: Please note that I'm not looking for AN to justify their decision to me - it's their board, they can delete every third post containing the letter 'Q' if they want. I'm just curious to hear what that justification is. No flames, I'm just curious.
                Last edited by Leader Desslock; February 10th, 2005, 11:35 PM.
                He was the sort of person who stood on mountaintops during thunderstorms in wet copper armour shouting "All the Gods are bastards."

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                  #53
                  Why not bring up the question to the Feedback forum? Why have it had to be discussed here?
                  "God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him" (1 John 4:16; English Standard Version translation).

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Originally posted by Yowvapa
                    Why not bring up the question to the Feedback forum? Why have it had to be discussed here?
                    Good point. I just brought it up in this thread because it was on my mind, but since you mentioned it, I 've asked again here. Anyone who wants to discuss this or flame me personally for my opinions can do it there, in order to keep this thread clean.
                    He was the sort of person who stood on mountaintops during thunderstorms in wet copper armour shouting "All the Gods are bastards."

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                      #55
                      Don't worry too much about legality,

                      There's a time when slavery was legal, that doesn't make it right.

                      There're tons of examples where legal doesn't mean right.

                      Whether it's right or wrong to dl anime I'm not so sure, I'm not really leaning either way. I suggest consult your conscience and decide for yourself on this issue.

                      There're certainly solid arguments, for either sides, although I have to say, consumer advocate groups usually have the better argument.
                      Fav Anime: 1)Ergo Proxy 2)RahX/Eureka 7 3)Voices of a Distant Star 4)Beyond the Clouds 5)Haibane Renmei 6) Now Then Here There 7)Planetes 8)Crest&Banner of the Stars 9) Code Geass 10)School Rumble 11)Scrapped Princess 12) Niea_7
                      Fav Manga:1)Ai-ren 2) Lament of the Lamb 3) Negative Happy Chainsaw Edge, Fuguruma Memories (in no particular order) Mahoraba, Chokotto Sister, YKK, Hotman, Hour of the Mice, Sing Yesterday For Me, Mahou Tsukai Ni Taisetsu Na Koto


                      Chk out my art thread

                      Comment


                        #56
                        ^ With all due respect, I don't believe that ANYONE can equate the moral issue of slavery with the moral issue of violating copyright law. If you're gonna pick an example, pick one that's even in the ballpark. That's like saying, "You know, back in 1940's Germany, many of the atrocities for which members of the high command would later be tried as war criminals against humanity were ACTUALLY LEGAL! Go figure. So remember that, the next time someone reminds you of the legality of Jaywalking. It's all relative."

                        I've yet to hear a single argument in favor of downloading anime that doesn't boil down to "I don't want to wait/pay to see my favorite entertainment." You're comparing THAT to the moral issue of slavery? With all due respect, dude - that's just wrong. It might not be illegal, but it's wrong.
                        He was the sort of person who stood on mountaintops during thunderstorms in wet copper armour shouting "All the Gods are bastards."

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Nope, it's merely my proof by contradiction that legal doesn't mean right.

                          There're other, better arguments out there, I'm taking a class for it, but it gets too long winded to put it all in here.

                          If you haven't find any argument that just boils down to that, you haven't been reading enough.

                          Bye
                          Fav Anime: 1)Ergo Proxy 2)RahX/Eureka 7 3)Voices of a Distant Star 4)Beyond the Clouds 5)Haibane Renmei 6) Now Then Here There 7)Planetes 8)Crest&Banner of the Stars 9) Code Geass 10)School Rumble 11)Scrapped Princess 12) Niea_7
                          Fav Manga:1)Ai-ren 2) Lament of the Lamb 3) Negative Happy Chainsaw Edge, Fuguruma Memories (in no particular order) Mahoraba, Chokotto Sister, YKK, Hotman, Hour of the Mice, Sing Yesterday For Me, Mahou Tsukai Ni Taisetsu Na Koto


                          Chk out my art thread

                          Comment


                            #58
                            ^ When you (or anyone) finds a link to a more definitive argument, I guarantee I'll be more than happy to read it. But I have yet to find one online myself, and I sure haven't seen anything else on these boards. I look forward to my future edification in this matter.
                            He was the sort of person who stood on mountaintops during thunderstorms in wet copper armour shouting "All the Gods are bastards."

                            Comment


                              #59
                              I don't even know what's to discuss. I am one of the champions of downloading, but I'll also admit that it is illegal. I could rationalize it by saying it's better than buying bootlegs (which I feel it is, at least I'm not paying someone to steal for me) but it still comes right back to the fact that I am, in fact, taking a product and not paying for it, ie I am stealing it. Do I feel guilty about this? Nope, because I am currently staring at a wall of 450 anime DVDs. In that collection, resides my Gungrave DVDs. Before their release, I had fansubs, however, you will not find those files on my computer any longer. Once a series comes out on DVD, I buy the DVD and delete the corresponding episodes. So, yes, I am a thief, but I do have a few morals

                              Comment


                                #60
                                It's also notable that none of these ppl accused of being in violation of the copyright law was ever proved guilty. Most of them just gave up lawsuit in order for a settlement, simply because the businesses just have so much more $$$ behind them.

                                Personally technology is here to change the way media is distributed. It'd be foolish fighting it. Ppl should embrace it, and adapt a better business model.

                                The same thing happens, when radio became a consumer product. In fact the music industry was worse hit than they're now. They lost 90% of sales, and claimed hence, that radio is a violation of copyright laws. Of course we look at this now and laugh.

                                Personally I see the same thing going on right now.
                                Fav Anime: 1)Ergo Proxy 2)RahX/Eureka 7 3)Voices of a Distant Star 4)Beyond the Clouds 5)Haibane Renmei 6) Now Then Here There 7)Planetes 8)Crest&Banner of the Stars 9) Code Geass 10)School Rumble 11)Scrapped Princess 12) Niea_7
                                Fav Manga:1)Ai-ren 2) Lament of the Lamb 3) Negative Happy Chainsaw Edge, Fuguruma Memories (in no particular order) Mahoraba, Chokotto Sister, YKK, Hotman, Hour of the Mice, Sing Yesterday For Me, Mahou Tsukai Ni Taisetsu Na Koto


                                Chk out my art thread

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